April 18, 2008...5:57 am

Listener under fire as columnist Dave Hansford departs after criticising climate change sceptics. By any chance, is there a connection?

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Suddenly, it has become apparent that all is not well at the Listener, my favourite New Zealand magazine. Its legendary photographer, Jane Ussher, is leaving. There are dark tales of unhappiness in the subbery. Yesterday I was referred to a comment by the much-missed writer Denis Welch, lamenting that the magazine’s owners, APN (also owner of the NZ Herald) are launching a giveaway magazine aimed at aging baby boomers.

Said Denis, on his blog recently: “The Listener’s natural territory is aging baby-boomers, but rather than invest in building it up, APN chooses to start what in effect will be a rival publication sure to eat into the Listener’s main demographic. On all the evidence so far, APN has never had any clear idea about what it should do with the Listener, least of all promote it and resource it properly, so is letting it quietly wither away. Which is a bitter shame, considering what the magazine has been and still could be.”

This week, the Listener’s Ecologic columnist, Dave Hansford, revealed he had been, um, let go, after he wrote a piece critical of climate change sceptics Owen McShane and Bryan Leyland.

As someone who has regularly praised the Listener and has just written a series of articles critical of how the BBC changed a climate change story in a controversial way, my ears pricked up when I read a comment Dave posted on Wednesday on Hot Topic, Gareth Renowden’s climate change blog.

Dave said he was “dropped from Ecologic with no valid explanation”shortly after his March 22 column, Some like it hot, which, in his words, “looked at media treatment of climate deniers and the NZ Climate Coalition’s links to Exxon through front groups like the Heartland Institute and Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow.”

The NZ Climate Science Coalition is, of course, the sceptical group run by iconoclast McShane and engineer Leyland which challenges the view that mankind is in deep trouble because greenhouse gas emissions are heating up the planet.

Hot Topic took up the issue robustly: “The recent [Listener] decision to drop Ecologic columnist Dave Hansford from its roster of writers calls into question its editorial integrity and independence,” Gareth wrote in an article titled Climate cranks claim a scalp.

“Did a threat by a member of the NZ Climate ‘Science’ Coalition to take the magazine to the Press Council hasten Hansford’s demise? Did Listener editor Pamela Stirling drop Hansford under pressure, or because his views didn’t fit with hers, or both? And if she did, what does this imply for journalism in New Zealand?”

These are good questions, and when I read them over my breakfast yesterday, I quickly put them to Pamela Stirling in an email in which I referred her to the Hot Topic article.

While waiting for her reply, I noticed Russell Brown climb into the issue too, calling it a “fairly extraordinary story” about Dave Hansford departing from The Listener “in the wake of what seems to have been fairly heavy pressure from the ‘sceptical’ Climate Science Coalition.”

As Russell and Gareth both noted, this week’s Listener carries two articles in response to Dave’s column. One, rubbishing global warming theory, is by Bryan Leyland and climate scientist, Auckland University Associate Professor Chris de Freitas, who argue the global-warming debate is far from settled. The second, Doubting the doubters, by Canterbury University ecologist, Professor Dave Kelly, says “the cost of not doing enough about climate change is a stuffed planet.”

On the publication of these “for and against” articles, Dave Hansford says: “In the Listener’s ‘both sides of the debate’ treatment this week, we appear to have a situation where somebody who presents a page of verifiable, supported facts is summarily dismissed, while somebody else is given free rein to present a page of unsupported misrepresentation, disinformation and plain lies (and I’m not talking about Dave Kelly!).”

The way the media treats the climate change issue interests me immensely. My take on it, as a journalist who has written serious news stories for two decades, is that most media, here and overseas, have shamelessly and gleefully taken global warming and beaten it up into the latest Armageddon, with the public being fed a diet of extremism in which almost every storm and iceberg is claimed to be the harbinger of doom. The media worldwide treated the Y2K Bug and Bird Flu the same way. “We’re all doomed!” And as a serious journalist, when I see a beat-up, I see bullshit. I simply don’t believe everything the media splashes about climate change. That doesn’t mean I doubt there is a serious scientific issue. There clearly is, but it doesn’t often leak into the popular media.

And, also as a journalist, I am seriously concerned that a columnist such as Dave Hansford might have been “let go” because he wrote something that upset somebody on the other side of a raging debate. That would concern me even more than when I saw climate activist Jo Abess boasting she had got the BBC to tone down the story that revealed there had been no global warming now since 1998. It’s more concerning, because I don’t think a columnist should be sacked because someone was annoyed with their viewpoint. A columnist who doesn’t annoy a whole lot of readers is probably not worth reading.

And while an editor has every right to choose what columnists will fill her pages, and every right to print “for and against” articles like Pamela Stirling did this week on the climate change issue, I would like to think an editor would have far deeper reasons for ditching a columnist than some might believe was the case with Dave Hansford. Indeed, as Dave himself seems to suggest was the case, and he was the one let go. But I also suspect Stirling had other reasons than this single column. Columnists come and go regularly on many publications. There have been other recent changes at the Listener.

Unfortunately, Stirling has not replied to my invitation to respond to the questions I posed to her, first emailed early on Thursday morning, then again early today, so this commentary has therefore been published without her side of it. If and when she gets back to me, I will post what she says.

Update: In his NZ Herald media column today, John Drinnan quotes Pamela Stirling as “insisting that the two events are unconnected.” Stirling says Hansford was only ever hired as a short-term position for two months and the column was now being written by a staffer, Drinnan reports.

He adds: “But it’s clear that Stirling’s approach to the eco-column - like her approach to the Listener - has been a lot more right of centre than the line of the old days. Stirling took over in 2004 and she says that for a long time the Listener had been the house journal of the Alliance Party. Stirling says the magazine is more centrist and allows everyone to express a view. But global warming campaigners have become impatient with persistent sceptics like Leyland - many of them pro-business - who question the human impact on global warming. Ten or even five years ago the blogland left would have been closely allied to the Listener.The Ecologic row is tinged with a slightly sad acceptance from the left that the Listener is no longer part of the movement.”

33 Comments

  • Just like I was sceptical of Abess’ role in the BBC change, I share your (and apparently Hansford’s own) scepticism that Hansford was dumped due to a single column.

    I presume that as a columnist, it is part of the game that you can be let go at any time without explanation? If so, the truth of this matter will be impossible to discern.

    That said, I share Hansford’s poor opinion of the “debate” piece, and I’ve seen nothing in Pamela Stirling’s conduct to earn any sympathy. She gets the benefit of the doubt only grudgingly from me…

  • Hansford isn;t sceptical at all. He was the one that launched the issue in a comment at Hot Topic. He is continuing to state that he was pushed due to complaints.

    Originally I thought he and others were getting caught up in their right wing conspiracies, now I wonder if he is just being a bit of a whiner. There appear to have been editorial differences for some time.

  • I guess the details of the science is too boring for the MSM and most of it’s readers, the same thing happened with Y2K and bird flu, if you go read about such issues in science oriented publications the articles are far more cautious in what they claim is happening.
    It would be refreshing if the media in NZ and overseas were prepared to investigate the credibility of those making the most sensationalist claims but we know that ain’t gonna happen, entertainment eclipses information throughout the MSM.

  • It would probably do to mention the Letter from the President of the Heartland Institute after Hansford’s column

    The article by Dave Hansford on “climate-change deniers” (“Some like it hot,” March 22) was unconscionably bad. He ought to be ashamed for having written it, and you for having published it. […] I don’t know how writers like Hansford sleep at night. If he has even a shred of personal integrity, he should apologise for his attacks on the growing number of scientists who say the threat of global warming has been over-sold, and promise to never again write on this subject. And his publisher should accept nothing less.

    “…promise never again to write on this subject. And his publisher should accept nothing less”.

    I can’t see how a far away think tank President could have any influence on an NZ magazine, but he certainly got his wish!

  • It is hardly likely the editor of The Listener is going to say that Hansford was given the chop because of a couple of complaints. Like climate change itself, we can only make judgements by looking at trends, so let’s hope no more accusations like this can be levelled in the future.
    What is of interest to me is that it appears the ground rules aren’t quite equal to all parties : “somebody who presents a page of verifiable, supported facts is summarily dismissed, while somebody else is given free rein to present a page of unsupported misrepresentation, disinformation and plain lies “.

    I rather think any argument is advanced with verifiable and supported facts.It would be proper to have this as the norm.

  • [Poneke says: I have emailed the author of this anonymously posted comment, suggesting they should make clear the organisation they represent, as I question whether this comment has been posted as a personal viewpoint. The author's connections are highly relevant to a comment in which they have specifically questioned the connections of Bryan Leyland.]

    enzer: exactly.

    Stirling got Dave Hansford to go back and verify everything he said in the column - which he did.

    The very least she could have done was to say that Bryan Leyland earns all his money working for the energy industry.

    The BBC’s environment reporters wrote a very interesting piece about how the BBC should treat sceptics:

    ” Given the weight of opinion building up around the IPCC it makes sense for us to focus our coverage on the consensus that climate change is happening, is serious, but is manageable if tackled urgently.

    “We do not need consistently to ‘balance’ the reports of the IPCC. When we broadcast outlying views we should make sure we do not over represent them and we should keep a rough balance of views from either side of the IPCC. If we do not, we will distort the issue and risk misleading or confusing our audience.

    “We must also be more savvy about the way we treat outlying views – and we should make it clear to our audience when an interviewee holds a minority position. ”

    “…Then there are the ‘sceptics’ (particularly in the US) funded by big business to run ‘think tanks’ spreading uncertainty and thus delaying action. We need to think hard about how and when we invite these various groups to contribute to the debate. Would we, for instance, serve our audiences by inviting lobbyists for tobacco firms to challenge the scientific links between smoking and lung cancer?”

    ….”We must be smarter, too, with the language and labels that we use when describing groups. The Scientific Alliance, for instance, is run by a scientist but was set up by a businessman to counter green fears and campaign against green taxes. Friends of the Earth’s views on climate science are close to the IPCC consensus. But our recent broadcasts referred to Friends of the Earth as a ‘green group’ and The Scientific Alliance as a ‘group formed to promote rational debate about science’.”

    That’s enough quoting of the BBC - the whole piece is worth a read:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2007/11/climate_sceptics.html

  • Lawrence Hakiwai
    April 18, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    To understand why many in the media are happy to buy into the Global Warming hysteria you have to understand how they work. Egos looking for headlines and lead stories will always take the worst case scenario. Imagine trying to sell to your editor a story that there’s an endless cycle of warming and cooling. “Yeah and night follows day, come back to me with something interesting”.
    Time Magazine is very brave this week to use the Iwo Jima flag-raising picture to help sell Global Warming, maybe the controversy will help sales.

    [Poneke says: And great to see a journalist of your standing saying this, Lawrence.]

  • cindy (shindig)
    April 18, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Poneke has asked me to state who I am - fair enough as I am accusing Leyland of not stating who he works for.

    I am one of the co-authors of the website http://www.exxonsecrets.org and occasionally blog on that - unpaid.

    I have been following the sceptics since I first encountered them working for the fossil fuel industry lobby group, the Global Climate Coalition at climate negotiations in the early 1990’s. I have tracked them ever since, whether I was working on WTO and agriculture for development organisations, or for the Free Tibet campaign.

    I have watched them run a fossil fuel industry-funded, massive public campaign of doubt against global warming in the US which has effectively delayed US action on climate for the past 15 years.

    I am posting not on behalf of any of my clients, who are mostly (but not all) international environmental organisations, including Greenpeace International - and mostly working on global warming. In the past I have worked for Greenpeace in New Zealand, Internationally and in the UK, but my comments are my own. (I have also worked for the NZ Government, The Christchurch Press, Calor Gas UK… it’s a long list!).

    I do not work for an industry which profits from the very stuff that causes global warming.

    I did not get paid - in part - by the Exxon-funded Heartland Institute to go to Bali (nor did I attempt to entice people there to a screening of The Great Global Warming Swindle by offering free massages).

    I am not touring the country at the moment with a so-called “climate expert” (actually a stratigraphist who specialises in rock layering), sponsored by the Employers & Manufacturers Union.

    I am not a climate scientist - I have never purported to be. I don’t pretend to be an expert on climate science, neither should I. I am happy to accept the scientific conclusions of the IPCC and leave the debate about climate science to the experts.

    It’s important that the debate about climate science continues - there are certainly many areas where the science is unclear.

    As the Washington Post put it when covering the Heartland conference in New York:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/03/AR2008030302781_pf.html

    “…On a more serious note, Oppenheimer questioned why the conference attendees were not addressing the genuinely muddier aspects of climate science, such as what level of sea rise the world faces and whether methane released from the tundra would exacerbate warming in the years to come.

    “There are huge uncertainties that are still attributed to this problem,” he said. He added that he welcomes conferences on unsettled questions such as the rate of ice-sheet melt, but “the core of the science on climate change is settled, and nothing these people do is going to change that.”

    Anyone else up for publishing their CV?

    Seems this is required these days when posting on blogs…

  • Thank you Cindy and no, CVs, are not required on this blog.

    I asked you to state that you were a Greenpeace activist, only because you had anonymously questioned who was paying Bryan Leyland, yet on other blogs such as HotTopic, you had posted under your own name. I thought that was a little deceptive in this particular instance only.

    It was only your questioning of Bryan Leyland like that which made your Greenpeace links relevant to the discussion.

    Normally I would say that if someone wants to comment anonymously, that is fine. This is the blogosphere, after all!

    And there is nothing to be ashamed of being a Greenpeace and other NGO activist, either. Nothing at all. Your CV is impressive.

  • As a scientist, and someone who has some knowledge of climate science as well, I find that the media _want_ controversy and dire warnings. It’s headline grabbing stuff. They also claim to want a “balance”. BUT the scientific consensus (and it is as statistically close to 100 % as you can get in science) is that recent climate change (NOTE the term I carefully use) is largely due to what we humanity have contributed. The climate skeptics have their own agendas, but basic understanding of simply physics is not one of them.

    Climate not warming? I wouldn’t expect it necessarily to do so. It is a gross over-simplification. But then I have not known the media to be particularly sophisticated. And that, at its heart, is the issue - the lack of good scientific journalism, something that is effectively non-existent in New Zealand.

    P.S. And as for CV’s, I have worked on long-term climate variation, and am a physicist by background.

    What scares me the most about all of this is NOT whether or not the climate long-term will warm or the seas rise by a certain amount. It is the uncertainty of the degree and extent of change. It is the non-linearity of the climate response. We are carrying out an uncontrolled experiment on the Earth system, with no clear knowledge of the end result. THAT should scare the excrement out of everybody.

  • cindy (shindig)
    April 18, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    Yup, Poneke, good point, which is why I posted my CV… to say I’m a “Greenpeace activist”, though, is a stretch - I’d say more of a “global warming activist”… pedantic, perhaps, but there you go.

  • But Cyndy

    What relevance is Brian’s so called “energy industry” links? It’s a phrase designed purely to smear. Without knowing his biography, it may be that most of his career has been in transmission of electricity from hydro dams - or in the development of hydro. He is actually considered an expert on electricity and engaged by the government for that expertise.

    You equally could be accused of have a very strong personal financial interest in the promotion of the concept of AGW. Just as strong as any other commercial vested interest.

  • As a scientist, and someone who has some knowledge of climate science as well, I find that the media _want_ controversy and dire warnings.

    David, you are not wrong, and it is something that Cindy and Brian and others are very adept at exploiting for their own ends.

    It would be good if there was a bit more editorial judgement displayed all round, but often the fact that GP says something or CSC says something is sadly considered news in itself, not whether what they say has any substance.

  • Insider: this is an old but very tired argument (and a little predictable).

    If global warming was solved, I’d be off working on other (probably environmental) issues like sustainable agriculture, GMO’s, cleaning up NZ’s frightening toxic waste legacy or some such thing.

    And if all environmental issues were solved, and non-profit environmental organisations had nothing left to work on, they would simply pack up and shut down, with all staff members extremely happy at a good job well done, proud they’d managed to get the planet into a state where their work was no longer required; proud that corporations had finally seen sense and put environmental considerations ahead of profit.

    I’d probably go off and work on human rights issues - or poverty - or maybe I’d even go back to being a journalist. There would be much celebration.

    My income is enough - but barely. My family give me a hard time for not earning what I could be earning if I was working for some big corporation. We have debates about whether life is about earning lots of money - or doing what you really love doing.

    I’m doing what I love doing… but for the money? Yeah right - very funny.

  • Cindy the point was that your “he’s connected to the energy industry!!!” smear is similarly tired and predictable. I challenged you to demonstrate its relevance. Leyland may have even made a bigger practical contribution to reducing CO2 emissions in NZ than you have.

    Your personal sacrifices are admirable, however they don’t increase or decrease the credibility of your views

    [Poneke says: Bryan Leyland's website says he is a consulting engineer "specialising in hydropower, power systems and markets." That doesn't suggest he is in the pocket of Big Oil.]

  • Or the other bugbear, big coal

  • sigh.
    Insider: I wasn’t suggesting Bryan was in the pocket of Big Oil.

    I know the Heartland Institute is - I have seen documents obtained through the US Freedom of Info Act which places Heartland in meetings with big oil about global warming.

    I have watched Heartland’s campaign for Al Gore to “debate” climate change (strangely, Heartland’s efforts to continue debating this issue are rather similar to Bryan’s. hmmm).

    And I know that Heartland paid - in part - for Bryan to go to Bali to take up the climate sceptic argument there.

    And I know that Bryan works for big energy companies in NZ, many of whom have been lobbying against action on climate change.

    And that the Employers and Manufacturers Union has been rabidly sceptic (and lobbying the Govt against action on climate change for years). And that they are sponsoring the little sceptic entourage that Bryan is taking round the country at the moment.

    that’s all I know.

    [Poneke says: I must say, Cindy, you are one of the few climate change campaigners who have posted comments on my blog who hasn't used the perjorative term "denier" for anyone taking a sceptical view. Good on you.]

  • This is an interesting story Poneke. Thanks for bringing it up. It’s also interesting to have some insight as to how a global warming activist like Cindy (Shindig) thinks.

    I am bemused by the implication that if somebody works for the “energy industry” then their opinions should automatically be suspect. How does that follow? As someone who is sceptical of the claims of global warming alarmists what I can say is this: I have a couple of relevant university degrees. I have studied the subject for several years with an open mind. It has become increasingly clear to me the the case for dangerous man-made CO2 global warming is very weak, is based on flawed science and lacks any compelling evidence. The IPCC is self-serving and corrupt. How anyone can still take their pronouncements seriously is simply amazing.

    Then there is David in ChCh who says:
    “BUT the scientific consensus (and it is as statistically close to 100 % as you can get in science) is that recent climate change (NOTE the term I carefully use) is largely due to what we humanity have contributed. ”

    Where has he been hiding? He could start by looking at Denis Dutton’s website: http://www.climatedebatedaily.com which should be most enlightening.

    Has anyone else noticed the recent sea change in the news media over this issue. The AGW alarmists aren’t getting it all their way anymore. One more thing for them to get alarmed about.

  • As a layperson with no expertise in anything relevant, and no baggage (except that of being a tax-paying NZer) I am fascinated by these goings-on…I agree with Poneke about media beat-ups but I am also aware of- hmm -interested parties trying to steer media interest. I will *always* go with current perceived scientific opinion (i.e the IPCC) -until those informed opinions are proven wrong…that’s because *science* is (so far!) the best tool we humans have so far invented, and real science is both fact-based and self-corrects…things which propaganda & religion never do-

  • Couple of points:

    The problem I have with Cindy’s approach is the implication that Leyland is working with energy companies and therefore is (a) wrong and (b) only doing it for the money.

    The idea that someone could have in good faith reached different conclusions to her doesn’t seem to feature at all.

    This is perhaps the biggest issue I have with many pushing the climate change agenda. Not all of them do it. One of my closest friends is a scientist working in this field. Definitely believes climate change is happening.

    But, no matter what the issue is, if you automatically think those on the opposing side are depraved and corrupt sell-outs you are involved in religion or something pretty theocratic - certainly not science.

    I’m a qualified agnostic on climate change (more on this on my blog, if anyone’s interested, along with concerns about media coverage of the issue raised here).

  • Brian I understand is pretty much retired. I’m not sure if he is doing much work for power companies. He ran his own consultancy for years.

  • I’m pretty much in agreement with Rob’s comment above, attributing the Gollums (people keep telling me that when I use the term “deniers” I’m deliberately linking them to Holocaust deniers, obviously “Gollums” as a reference to people driven insane by their addiction, in this case to carbon, is a far less pejorative term) motives to oil money doesn’t hold water, they all genuinely believe that AGW is a “hoax” or simply wrong, such belief isn’t bought with money.

    Having said that I think it’s fair to point out that climate scientists base their views on the science, not money, as the Gollums often claim.

  • An interesting story. I thought you had a big typo in your headline with “sceptics,” until I realized that must be the English spelling for skeptics.

    I write a column for boomer consumers called The Survive and Thrive Boomer Guide at http://boomersurvive-thriveguide.typepad.com.

    Rita in the U.S.

  • ‘Correction and apology to The Listener and its editor Pamela Stirling’

    heh….seems The Listener would rather have its lawyers respond to Hot Topic.

  • The AGW debate between the theologians on both sides is bearable only in periodic samples, to see where they’ve got to.
    But the Listener’s renaissance is another thing. Seems to me the reversal of the decades-long readership decline is the real measure of Pamela Stirling’s acheivement.
    I’m sure I missed stuff I should have been aware of, during its long sad years as the Alliance’s Tablet, when it was unendurably trite.
    Now I will see stuff that variously intrigues, delights, or enrages, as should be in a vibrant magazine of ideas.
    I suspect that Mr Hansford lost his contract simply because he was boringly predictable.

  • Hmm, it appears that Hot Topic has had a lawyers letter from The Listener. I personally couldn’t see anything in Gareth’s post that justified such a response.

    Perhaps your observation: “Suddenly, it has become apparent that all is not well at the Listener, my favourite New Zealand magazine.” is more true than you realise, is the Listener striking out because it’s wounded?
    Gareth’s comments weren’t even close to being as harsh as other posts on various blogs critical of many publications.

  • great (fluff)
    I’m not sure if the level of scientific concesus has changed but I haven’t heard any great creaking noises

  • Stephen Franks - each to their own. I, one of many, am not renewing my - o, 20 year or so loyal & long years of subscription?- with the Listener, because it has become tiresomely irrelevant - and your comment nudged me over the edge to non-renewal of subscription.

  • I guess the details of the science is too boring for the MSM and most of it’s readers…

    Well, fine — after all there are plenty of media outlets that chuntering alone quite nicely on a steady diet of weather reports, updates on whether Britney Spears is mentally stable and wearing knickers and moral panics. But if you’re going to do reporting that actually requires some level of literacy and numeracy, you either do it properly or leave it alone entirely.

    What do you think are the chances of any media outlet making a point of hiring journalists with any kind of scientific background, or requiring employees to meet basic standards of literacy and numeracy that would result in fewer stories like the recent rash of “anti-depressants don’t work — study says” tales.

    Meanwhile,

  • I wonder why so many property developers are active climate skeptics (or so it seems)?

    Second thought PR companies…?

  • Wow Stephen. There are real parallels between the Listener and your political career.

    Who woulda thunk?

  • I can understand the concern that this legal action again may set of a train of such actions and stifle debate.
    I am not surprised this “precedent” has taken place over a climate change debate because as I have mentioned I have never been in a debate which has been so acrimonious, and as something of a contrarian I have been in many. I might also say that the climate skeptics do seem to be able to engage in civilised discourse while the alarmists are the ones who foam at the mouth and look forward to me “rotting in the grave” and so on.
    But, while I was not at the center of this contretemp between Bryan Leyland and the Listener and its columnist it does seem to me that it was “without precedent” and hence the legal action is not as scary an action as it might first appear. For one thing the columnist misrepresented his status but more importantly those who rushed to his defence, then proceeded to attack a third party – the Editor, making claims which would surely bring her reputation into disrepute. This was not an argument beween two bloggers on a blog but between bloggers and a blog host and a third party and an aggrieved columnist who seemed willing to tell the public that he had been fired because oil companies had brought pressure to bear on the Listener Editor who had then caved.
    I suspect that the Listener found they could be facing an employment court action if they did not come to the defense of the Editor.
    She surely had a case.
    This is a highly particular set of circumstances and I do not therefore believe that blog sites are under some threat from corporates. It seems to me more likely that an individual is having her reputation protected from outrageous slander.

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