The sister of a murder victim whose case featured in the “psychic” charlatan television show Sensing Murder says the claim that its clairvoyants talked to her dead sister are rubbish, even though she personally believes in life after death.
Debbie, the sister of Tracey Ann Patient, the Auckland schoolgirl murdered in 1976 and one of the cases featured on TV2’s Sensing Murder, levelled this charge yesterday in the comments section of my January 14 article about the programme.
“My sister Tracey’s case was ‘presented’ on Sensing Murder,” Debbie wrote. “The producers tried to contact my family many times before it aired, but my parents were not interested in making a contribution to the programme.
“I had the email address of the producer. I contacted her after I’d seen the programme to tell her what I thought of it. She had been very friendly to me when she wanted help with her programme, but she never replied to my email. I also emailed one of the ‘psychics’ (can’t remember now whether it was Deb or the other woman). She never replied either.
“I do believe in life after death; I have seen ‘ghosts’, ‘spirits’, call them what you will, both before and after my sister was murdered, in England and NZ (in a flat and the house we lived in, in Henderson). “I haven’t ‘called on’ them or anything; they have just turned up of their own accord. I know I sound like a nutter, but I also know what I’ve seen.
“I have never seen or heard from my sister and I don’t believe those ‘psychics’ did, either. It was painful, to say the least, for me to watch the programme, but I felt that I had to. As soon as they started to say that Tracey was talking to them I knew it was a load of rubbish.”
Debbie said she was leaving her comment on this blog “at the risk of having loads of people” ridiculing her. Well, I won’t be doing that. My views on psychic powers and “talking to the dead” are straightforward. There is no such thing. But Debbie believes in it and I respect her beliefs.
What makes this really important to me is that Debbie, who believes in psychic powers, is able to say from memories of her sister Tracey that Sensing Murder was feeding viewers rubbish with its false claims about Tracey communicating with its “psychics.”
My January article was about Christchurch man Tony Andrews offering $20,000 of his own money to any of the four “psychics” who appear on Sensing Murder if they could demonstrate in a simple test that they actually have psychic abilities.
Naturally, neither Sensing Murder’s producers, nor their four “mediums” – Kelvin Cruickshank, Sue Nicholson, Deb Webber and Scott Russell Hill – have shown any interest in taking the test, because they know they are perpetrating a cruel sham. They have the psychic powers of tadpoles, and they know it.
It’s obvious what kind of a show this is, though, when its producers are all lovey towards the relatives before it screens, to try to get them on the show to give it credibility, but will not even reply to emails from Debbie afterwards.
Not a single murder has been solved by a “psychic” from Sensing Murder or any other charlatan like them, and never will be. So-called psychics, mediums and clairvoyants would be harmless entertainment if not for the fact that many people believe they are genuine, a belief promoted by shows like Sensing Murder that claim they are. There should be a law against such shamstery.
40 Comments
February 22, 2008 at 8:14 am
Excellent post Poneke, I agree 100%.
Nobody is going to ridicule Debbie’s belief in life after death, and her experience with the shows producers and their story on her sister will surprise noone who is a sceptic and has seen the show, the “mediums” follow a script.
February 22, 2008 at 9:14 am
My biggest objection to this show – and others similar – is not the charlatanry. People believe what they want to believe, and sometimes – often in fact – that doesn’t make a hell of a lot of sense to others.
It’s the emotional exploitation involved that I have a problem with.
February 22, 2008 at 9:51 am
The emotional exploitation is a big problem, and I certainly share that concern.
But I also have a problem with lending the authority of broadcast media to promote ideas which are clearly wrong. Yeah, people can believe whatever they want, but it makes me cross if people’s beliefs in nonsense are bolstered or changed by television.
There’s also a spectrum I think, from Debbie’s belief that something survives death to “these mediums can divine the details of crimes via the spirit world. Whether I agree with Debbie or not, I don’t think her beliefs really cause any harm, whereas what Sensing Murder promotes really does: it causes a nuisance to police and provides free marketing to people who financially exploit the gullible (those readings aren’t free you know).
PS: having said that, today’s xkcd has a lot of resonance for me too
http://xkcd.com/386/
March 6, 2008 at 10:23 am
the worst one is the skunk haired lisa williams, who bowls up to people quietly having their lunch on the street and proceeds to tell them their dead mother / son / friend is talking to her, leaving them in a crumpled heap of grief.
April 22, 2008 at 10:16 am
look at it this way, would you like your sisters murder solved? wouldn’t any exposure on an old cold case file that couldn’t be solved be good for it? it might jog someones memory. it could have the hole case be looked at in a new light. it could even just have old DNA evidence ran through codas and since it had never been ran before it could come up with a hit. a lot of old cold cases have never had the DNA evidence put into the data bank. especially if it happened before there was DNA testing. like the cold case of the two women in Colorado the DNA evidence was put into the data bank because of the show sensing murder and it came up with a match from a guy in prison! exposure is what those shows are all about just like Americas most wanted the more you get the information out there and people talking about it the more likely you will solve a very old cold case.
May 23, 2008 at 5:53 am
Perhaps these people are frauds, but perhaps they’re not. Who’s to judge about that? Some believe in a life after death, some don’t. Some believe in God, some don’t. Some have a special gift, some haven’t. We all have our own special talents. If you believe in God, however, without any proof of him really existing, would there be as many sceptics around you to target you and question your faith? It’s so easy to ’score’ in this area. I do not like the fact that this Deb charges 400 dollars for a reading, because I think she got this gift to help others without exploiting people’s needs for contact with the other side. She would have been more credible if she would charge much less. But perhaps she really does have a gift. If she helps others find rest, I’m fine with that. If only she would be doing it without make these huge profits.
May 23, 2008 at 6:54 am
Fools who are easily parted with their money to charlatans like “psychics” really are born every minute, Claudia.
May 23, 2008 at 9:57 am
Claudia, it’s quite easy to judge whether people are frauds, and a ‘whatever’ attitude towards this question is not in the public interest.
May 29, 2008 at 4:13 am
Hi!
I have listened to all your comments and while I cannot speak for the Sensing Murder Psychics or the programmes Producers I can speak for myself and others. Communication with the afterlife or interaction as Tracy’s sister stated earlier is a real phenomena and people should at least look at it before they commentate on it!!! Tonight, there will be thousands of mediums working in Churches or involved in Private sittings throughout the world proving time and time again that this is not a bunch of deluded idiots seeking recognition, many mediums work for free or fuel money and travel hundreds of miles to do it but the sceptics here pick on a few instances and a few mediums and generalise for millions and if the program Sensing Murder is fraudulent – stop bitching and writing your glass is half empty remarks that you know nothing at all about and prove your pet theories beyond any shadow of a doubt then people might believe you have not just got it in for psychics but you are making your judgment based on sound scientific evidence and not pessimism and glass is half empty mentality…..I challenge you to prove it for your own sakes because as long as you keep posting this same old boring unsubstantiated blog more and more people believe you are the deluded one’s – crystal ball is in your court guys.
July 31, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Lisa Williams is scheduled to perform in the Seattle Moore Theatre this week and seats are $45.50 – $75.50 each. She reminds me of a psychic medium who at the same age created a sensation in the southeastern U.S. from about 1980-2000 but began stumbling after critics (including myself) began examining her claims over a 20 year period and found discrepancies in her claims. That psychic medium was also unique in being the only crime psychic to have lectured at the FBI and was regularly featured on international TV shows for more than 15 years. Lisa Williams seems to some to simply be a younger version of U.S. psychic criminologist and medium Noreen Renier. Renier has long claimed to talk to the dead through two entities named Robert and Sing. But the more such soothsayers claim the larger it seems they fall. Renier just filed her second bankruptcy within the last 10 years and in 2006 lost a Washington federal court lawsuit with the U.S. District judge ordering a judgment against her in 2007. Part of that loss included having the judge order her to pay her nemesis critic — myself — about $40,000.
Now why would credible psychics not see such things beforehand? For a review on Renier, see the commercial free web-site http://www.amindformurder.com and meanwhile start the countdown on examing the claims of Lisa Williams. At $75.50 per seat one could well imagine that a psychic might be laughing to the bank at the gullibility of people. Better to put the money on some lotto tickets and a good dinner.
August 6, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Like I said before, certain mediums have credibility problems but for those who don’t I’m sure the sceptics will find one , for instance in the late 1980s a brilliant medium named Gordon Higginson was accused of memorizing names and Phone numbers from the telephone book in the areas he worked, come on guys, is that credible to you, If you ever go to a spiritualist Church (which you wont because you have already made up your mind that we are all delusional) you will see that there is no way a medium knows who is coming and who is not and besides that they could be doing a church on a cancellation night and wont even know the people on the committee…
Have a bit of vision messages are not like picking up a phone and saying hello!! this is a thought world and the messages can be symbolic, for instances, last night I worked in a church and heard hey hey we’re the Monkeys theme song and the person I was giving the message to worked in the monkey house at a famous theme park…..see what I am trying to say here, it’s not simple and I trained for 3 years when I first started, to understand the meanings of symbols is difficult and sometimes the medium misunderstands symbols and that can lead to problems? I will get your apologies later when we all cross over.
Chris.
August 7, 2008 at 2:14 am
If psychic is true, then practitioners wouldn’t dabble in the day to day reading of other people’s dead relatives messages, but they would be reading the stock market and earn millions if not billions.
Are you a millionaire by now as a result of your regular readings from your local psychic?
One fact that I know for sure about the other side and that is, every dead person is a stutter. How do I know? Well, you can see this on TV when the psychic struggles to pronounce the name/s of the killer/s.
August 14, 2008 at 9:01 pm
FF – that’s a commonly asked question. The answer is very simple – Psychics aren’t scammers. They don’t need to win billions of dollars when they can be busy helping people out instead. (and yes, earning a good income off that like anyone who is good at their job.)
My psychic reading didn’t make me rich – but it sure made me a believer. It’s sad that some people are determined to think psychics are scammers without even taking the time to find out. Assumptions are the mother of all… … y’know.
Remember to keep an open mind. Knowing the truth is more important than trying to keep up a reputation!
August 15, 2008 at 1:42 pm
What I would like to know is doesn’t the New Zealand Police Force employ these people? I mean, they are on a recruitment drive, are they not? And surely these mediums have passed all their qualifications and can read & write english to an acceptable level, unlike some of the rabble that is going through the Police College these days.
I think we should have the Police Minister up about this, as many people I talk to these days – more often than not – have concerns about their safety and security of them & their families. Wouldn’t having more pyschics on the beat improve the public safety?
Imagine it! Crimes being solved before they were commited; the locking away of potential future murderers and rapists; being able to find out where stolen property is being stored and returning it to its rightful owner. All this without the drudgery and time-wasting proven techniques of detective work and forensic evidence.
Who’s with me!?
August 15, 2008 at 3:41 pm
I have read the article and read some of the comments…..and I am sitting here in disbelief……..
Disbelief because I can not believe this Blog was written by an intelligient person…….a person who needs all the facts, not just assumption for a situation…… So important to research all the facts………and i believe some of you that have written comments do not have all the facts………
okay this is where i know you will start to pick to bits my comments….
i can honestly say The Mediums i have seen, including Kelvin and Deb from SM Speak to those that have passed over…They Communicate……. they are genuine loving pple… and I do have facts that proved to me they were infact doing just that….
Clairvoyants, those that see pictures, symbols, colours, pick up information through seeing…
Clairaudients through hearing noise, voices
Clarsentient through feelings…
Claicogniscent, just knowing
Psychic picks up energy vibrations and can combine any of the other abilities…..
I suggest in future if you wish to make a comment you do need to get all the facts……..
and I do have all the facts inregards to this case…….
May The Goddess lead you on a path of true Love and Light and look forward to meeting you all in Summerland (The Spirit Realm)……..
Blessed Be!…….
August 15, 2008 at 4:44 pm
The best tool we humans have invented to date is science.
It enables us to understand much about our world and ourselves. It works. These are scientific facts: clairvoyency, clairaudiency, clairsentiency, claircognisency, and *all* forms of psychic claims so far scientifically tested do *not* work.
August 15, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Really? I beg to differ.
http://tinyurl.com/237wc9 – just one of many tests where, surprise surprise, mediums proved themselves. Plenty more available – ask Google. Seek and you shall find (the truth, not just more statements to support how you think you should feel about it).
So do we have any proof that the sister actually said these things or could it have been anyone?
August 16, 2008 at 6:46 am
So do we have any proof that the sister actually said these things or could it have been anyone?
It was absolutely her sister. I do check out such things before I post articles on this blog.
August 16, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Thank goodness for Keri Hulme’s post above.
Ya What, you would do well by yourself if you learned to distinguish between actual science and self-involved quackery. Here is a nice, brief fisking of the fraudulent science you just posted: http://skepdic.com/essays/novelway.html
August 16, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Ya What said…
My psychic reading didn’t make me rich – but it sure made me a believer.
Are you sure that you meant to say, My psychic reading didn’t make me rich – but it sure made me hooked to his/her service since I am a sucker ?
Ya What said…
Really? I beg to differ. … – just one of many tests where, surprise surprise, mediums proved themselves.
Yeah, yeah, I had read Dr. Schwartz’s paper a few years ago, when I was made aware of the so called proof of psychic ability by its proponent’s. Here is my short answer, that Dr. Schwartz’s experiment was borderline 5th form test and if you understand of how proper statistical test is done, then you know what I mean.
Here are some take on Dr. Schwartz’s work by others (fellow academic psychologists).
- How Not to Test Mediums – Critiquing the Afterlife Experiments
- A Critique of Schwartz et al.’s : After-Death Communication Studies
There are more, that I can show you, but perhaps the 2 cited above are enough.
By the way, you seem like I’ve met you in a debate in a different blog in the past (yes , I do debate on validity of these mystical practices), because in those previous debates, Dr. Schwartz’s work was cited as a proof of psychic ability and your tone is almost similar, ie, … surprise surprise, mediums proved themselves.
August 19, 2008 at 5:10 am
After all that has been said here by so many people willing to explain mediumship the sceptics still dont not get it. If you don’t have the ability to see, hear, or feel, then please stop knocking those who do, as mediums, we are able to prove to most people the reality of the afterlife but some would not believe it even if they had a loved one (whom had gone to the other world) in there home and gave them a cup of tea and had a 10 minute conversation, Becoming a medium becomes your life and the 4 kids and 2 car scenario becomes almost impossible to sustain and marriages break ups occur as a result so please have a little respect for those who have there life turned upside down by this, there is very little money in it, there are very few partners that will put up with it, and the well structured life we all want and crave goes out of the window for good!! the upside is, we help other people and give there life structure and closure and we do that everyday, now,…apart from sitting at home in a comfort zone with your 4 kids and 2 cars what will you be doing tonight?
August 19, 2008 at 3:25 pm
What stone-hearted individual would not be moved?
August 19, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Possibly this one.
“apart from sitting at home in a comfort zone with your 4 kids and 2 cars what will you be doing tonight?”
Enjoying that image of a somewhat crowded comfort zone. Worrying about the educational levels of rather more than a few of my fellow citizens. Easing the worry with a Laphroaig. Eating babies. Communicating with my family who are far-flung. Washing dishes. Researching. Writing a book review or 2. Watching “Ratatouille” again. Usual evening for a cheerful atheist untroubled by spooks-
August 19, 2008 at 7:11 pm
It was quite sweet that. I’m a 23-year-old gay serial pedestrian with barely enough money to afford a 10-trip bus ticket per week at any rate, let alone two cars and 4 surrogate pregnancies/adoptions!
I tend to assume that those mediums who are not fraudsters (of themselves as much as others) are mentally ill. Mental illness does fit about as well with the scenario that you described, Chris, as with the idea that ghosts exist. In fact, I’d hazard to suggest mental illness explains the scenario better, seeing as we don’t know any mechanism by which a ghostly consciousness can exist divorced of its materiality.
August 19, 2008 at 8:18 pm
For the record, I have 1 vehicle (a 1997 Mitsubishi Delica Spacegear Jasper-I-am-not-kidding since you were so kind as to ask); no children, and I’m selfemployed. I am an asexual, and I am *not* rich, but I am very wealthy in terms of family, friends, knowledge, experience, and abilities. And I totally concur with Matty Smith apropos the mental illness bit- with this caution: mental illness is not generally self-inflicted, being a combination of (as per usual with everything human) of genetic & environmental factors so- to put it in ancient kiwi-slang – poor phuquewits cant help themselves-
December 3, 2008 at 11:40 pm
I feel for Debbie, but her comments aren’t very logical. She believes in spirits, because she’s experienced them, but is sure that there’s no such thing as communicating with them?! Why? And that disbelief is the basis for her statement that, as soon as the psychics starting “talking” with her sister, she knew it was a scam. How? Simply because they claimed they were doing what she believes isn’t possible. Not because they were wrong on anything; that would be different, actual, evidence. But hers is nothing more than a belief, so it really doesn’t have anymore credibility than anyone else’s belief or lack of. Maybe it’s too painful to think that her sister can communicate, but hasn’t with her, or some other reason. But regardless, it’s simply a disbelief that she has that forms the basis of her claim.
December 22, 2008 at 9:48 am
I did not say that I don’t believe it’s possible to communicate with spirits; I do believe it and I have experience of this. I knew that it was a scam because of what they said that Tracey was saying to them.And, more importantly, what she didn’t say.
December 27, 2008 at 10:25 pm
I think that the person who muderd tracy ann could be still alive in sensing murder that cykick said name of the murderer .
January 5, 2009 at 12:13 pm
Yes, a person by that name and matching that description still lives near Henderson.
The police have told me that they have checked him out and he has an alibi; he was at a gig at Western Springs that night. How do you prove or disprove something like that 30 odd years later?
I don’t think that the police will ever catch the person that murdered my sister, even though somebody must know who the murderer is.
January 17, 2009 at 5:29 pm
I always think of tracey this month, and wonder whether this year the police will do something more . I have not had any doubt about who had traceys ring, over the time it was missing, she was a mother also, this is why it was returned. She found it in her sons bedroom in a old suitcase under his bed with a few of his treasures. Its so unfair that traceys life was lost and her killer walks free still.
The reason why the police have not caught traceys killer is because they have been hunting out the wrong person. The police need to focus on the ring Tracey was wearing on her finger, she was wearing it before and while she was with her killer, but she was found without it. Has anyone any idea why traceys killer would want to return her ring, placing it in a avondale rubbish bin, leaving a note with a phone call, two years after tracey was killed?
Why. Maybe its time I spoke out. Whos listening. nz
February 2, 2009 at 1:10 pm
watch the Psychic Private Eyes programme aired in the UK with mediums Tony Stockwell, Colin Fry and Tracy Higgs. All wonderful mediums and lovely people.
The programme was contacted by the family of murder victim Sally Ann Bowman when police failed to make progress in the case. It was a private appeal from the family and the mediums worked in conjunction with them and the police. They were able to give an accurate account of Sally’s ordeal but more than that they gave an excellent description of her killer.
They worked closely with police and as a result Sally Ann’s killer was found. It was documented on camera and they were spot on accurate. Fortunely Sally Ann’s body could provide a lot of it’s own evidence and DNA so securing a case against her killer, without simply resting on what a medium say’s, was able to be mounted and executed.
No psychic medium can be taken seriously on the basis of what is essentually ‘heresay’ from the spirit world and in cold cases such as those on SM it is difficult to bring prosecutions without the hard evidence needed to mount that case. If this WAS the case then people claiming to be mediums could go around accusing people of all sort on that basis. No, evidence is crucial but mediums can provide new leads, profiling, and additional information which the police can then investigate as a lead to it’s case.
I’m sorry that the people here are so disbelieving about how our loved ones in spirit are always close by. I know there are a lot of frauds out there but that is life, people are human. It doesn’t mean all are fakes.
Personally, as a teenager I saw the final resting places and the killers in a few high profile cases here in the UK. When I say high profile I mean highly publicised because as a teenager it’s not as though I sought out murder cases or anything. I never did anything about the information I got and in those cases I came to regret that deeply. Recently as an adult I have began to develop the ability that gave me these insights and am learning to control it. I am not learning to con anyone, or fool them, or defraud them, or upset them, or ‘read’ them. I only want to help people and let them know that life does go on after death and that their loved ones are with them and only a thought away.
I hope you find the Psychic Private Eyes investigation of the Sally Ann Bowman case interesting and I hope that for at least some of you, it proves that mediums in these cases- whilst they cannot be the main nail of evidence in a criminal investigation – they can assist the police in their work.
Thank you
Alanna
February 2, 2009 at 8:39 pm
Interestingly a cursory google leads to the “story” about how one of the so called psychics featured in the show that Alanna refers to also claims to have information which could solve the Madeline McCann disappearance…….telling lies to the parents of dead children, what a way to make a living.
The Bowman case was solved by police work, not fake talking to the dead. It took 9 months for the killer Dixie to be identified.
February 2, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Sounds like a very good show to watch, but our shows are a bit limited in newzealand . I beleive in spirit, why not . I think its cool that there are psychics, they are so lucky to have E.S.P. the six sense only few have. Police and familys should use them more, whats there to loose by listening to the insights of others more cleaver then most . After all how many people beleive in God, look at the money the church;s over the world take from our people. Its a shame. If there are people out there that boo who mediums then those people too need to boo who priest, the ones that take money off many people at church on a sunday, when there familys need the money more. Because for the church too its all about money and not about God at the end of there day. Keep up the good work all you gifted mediums. Go for it. n.z
February 3, 2009 at 9:15 am
I visited a self-proclaimed psychic many tears ago. She made a number of predictions that were laughable, and a few that weren’t. An important person was about to enter my life, very distinguished gent, who would do my career a power of good. She even gave a physical description, with heavy emphasis on how well he dressed.
She was, it seems, partially right. It was only after I’d narrowly avoided being severely ripped off by a certain shonky individual who bore an uncanny resemblance to her prediction that I decided, yes, she had indeed “seen” him. Unlike me, however, she’d been most impressed.
I believe that something akin to “psychic powers” exist. It doesn’t automatically follow, though, that those who may possess such talents are somehow ‘wise’ or ‘chosen’. The woman who I consulted all those years ago, while pleasant enough, was hardly the sharpest knife in the cutlery drawer.
Pretty much like the gaggle of pimped-up suburban dimwits of Sensing Murder. Occasionally one of their number might just “see” something of importance, but an overly credulous police/entertainment alliance ensures that next to nothing will come of it.
February 3, 2009 at 12:19 pm
“Many tears ago”? Heh, okay, let that typo stand.
February 3, 2009 at 12:29 pm
I honestly believed you meant to write it like that, it read perfectly.
February 17, 2009 at 2:04 pm
I would like to talk with Debbie Patient please. Its about your sister Tracey Ann Patient. I would like to share with you, some information that i wrote in a statement to the police about the murder of your sister. If you are still around, let me first know tro this site. or if anyone knows Traceys bestfriend, the friend that walked her halfway home, that thursday night 28th january 1976 as Tracey was found the next day. Between us, we may connect the missing peices togeather. Lets give it a go for Tracey.
July 31, 2009 at 2:13 am
what if as a child you grew up with a very close family member telling you they suspected a certain relative of theirs too quite possibly of had something to do with tracys murder and for all these years into your own adulthood you’ve wondererd what if its true? should i say something! but have said nothing cause your not sure and dont know how to go about saying something anyway…..
September 9, 2009 at 8:50 am
What if:
If you want to take it further, ask Poneke to give me your email address and I’ll contact you. I’m in contact with officers at Henderson police station and can contact them on your behalf if you want me to.
September 9, 2009 at 12:53 pm
not sure if i have done it right but i have made the request, hope too have contact with you soon